Thread: Could use some ideas~

My site (TwelveBeads) was recently mentioned in an article here...
http://www.beadboard.net/ Although they complimented my work they
said my navigation was tedious. Because I am completely self taught I have probably used the long way when building my site. I looked into the Soho thing but I am afraid I do not have the skills to use this. I tried to follow the directions and got stuck at loading it. :(

So my question is... What is a way I could make my site less "tedious" while staying in BlueVoda and keeping things simple.

Gwen,
Tedious isn't the word I'd use- but you've made it difficult to see what you are. Are you a store first, or are you mainly an informational site that happens to have a store (which I had to look for?)

If they didn't mention it - your header is way too big - so that I see almost only it - and don't get to find out what you are there either.

As for the store itself, I wasn't sure how to navigate it to find anything - and that will lose you customers. It has to be very easy to understand and find exactly what the products are. I think you may have "overworked" it instead of keeping it simple.

How would you like it to look? I'd like to see more products per page - instead of having to figure out how to navigate (and it took me time) and then having to go page by page to see all the products -

I think you have a great niche market - so making the store easy to navigate should bring you sales.

How do I do this while maintaining the visual aspect of the site. If I use the gallery option to view many beads on one page then I have pay-pal buttons all over the place. I do have the option to shop by price but again it is tedious because the person then has to get to the page. My biz is doing well but I feel it could definitely improve. When I view other sites I see very high end (Tiffany's is my fav), really bad home made sites or cookie cutter sites. Very high end is out for me because I don't have the cash flow so it has to be home made. I don't want to be cookie cutter and most definitely don't want cheesy ;). I do see your point about my site being informational or store. Problem is I want both ~ Any thoughts?

Vodahost offers free stores, soho launch and cubecart which could work well for you. Really easy to use and would help you lay out your site better. I did notice a big gap half way down the page which you need to close to make your site look more professional. Thje catagories menu needs to be higher up in the page for people to notice as at first glance as bethers says your site looked like a informational site rather than something being sold. you also have adverts on the page that are not relevent to the content and could cause you not to be favoured by search engines. try to keep your content relevent and the feel of the site the same throughout with navigation menus clearly visible and easy to use.

Double checked my ads and they are relevant. If you are not familiar with 12 step programs they may not make sense to you. The site is two fold. It is information and store. It is important to have the information I do it for those who need help "getting help" and help with the 11th Step. Again it is information 12 steppers understand. My question is still the same...

How can I make the shop navigation less tedious in BlueVoda? I have been playing with different ideas all day and they all look junky. I am happy with the other parts of my site. I tend to walk my own walk with some things. Ease of the store nav is important to me. If someone out there has a store using BlueVoda only please let me know. I would love to peek at some other ideas.

Thanks~

Have a look at Bether's sites

When I went to each of your numbered page links, I noticed a description at the bottom which always started off with a different name of the bead.

Why not use a 2 column table with short desc to the left
and a thumbnail of the item to the right.
The name could act as a text link to the actual page to see more detail and to place an order.
If each page had a back button, that would also make for easy navigation.

You really need to come up with something else to improve your site...........
but its not an easy task to advise someone without a dialog.

Good luck.............

You can make a very high end look, if that's what you want - with the BV program. You don't need to have the buy button on each product if you put more on a page - but have each product clickable to the product page - by it's NAME instead of by a number. Or by a design name or color.

Thing is - right now - it's very difficult to navigate and many will not stay because of it. Your site should be built for who is going to use it - not for yourself - as hard as that is to understand by many.

Thanks Liz! And, yes the 2 stores in my signature are made in BV - and I don't think they look cheesy, and because I use BV they definitely aren't cookie cutter (which I don't want either).

Bether,
On this page...http://www.pinatapalace.com/minipinatas.html of your Pinata site how did you set it up? That is not a gallery is it? If it is a table how do you do your pics?

Thnaks David,
I do have last and next buttons on each gallery page.

I appreciate everyones help ;)

Bethers,
I just read a post of yours that answered my question. What I don't know how you do is make gallery items have a link or pay button? How did you do that?

That page - each line of pictures is it's on BV gallery - then I use Cart Manager for my pay buttons - which are all individually put in. If you are using Paypal, you'd do that with their buttons in the html box. I make my own buttons (need to do better ones one day for that site - I like the ones on A Child's Palace better :) And I don't have large pictures for the pinatas, so clicking on them unfortunately doesn't give people much of a difference, if any. But that hasn't hurt me with that product. Again, on A Child's Palace, I've needed to have the pictures enlarge to much bigger with the detail. And I've set some of them up without using the gallery feature - but using the regular image feature - so that when you click on them you get more information on the product (which you might want with the jewelry - OR give more space between the rows, or next to the pictures to do that.

There are so many ways you can set the page up - so that you like it - and also to make it easy for the customers.

OK ~ So I started to do this today. I am adding my beads to one gallery and will have a view all page. I still am not sure how to add the html to the text area of the gallery. If I click on the HTML for the gallery how can I edit each pic?

I am starting to get excited because this is what I wanted to do months and months ago but thought it could not be done!

The only text you can add to the pictures using this gallery feature is a small name - like you see under the pinatas. The rest of my text is added by text boxes and html boxes.

Each line of pictures on that page is it's OWN gallery - it's NOT one gallery of pics for the whole page. Just line them up and work down.

I hope that's clear.

Gwen: You are in good hands with Bethers, David and Liz. I just wanted to tell you how wonderful I think your site is. Yes it needs some nav and gallery work, which you are doing...but in general, I love the concept of the the 12 beads along with 12 step. Great idea. I have several friends that are on the 12 step program and I'm going to forward the link to your site to them. Keep up the great work and thank you for your contribution to a great program.
Cindy

Hi Gwen-
Isn't Beth amazing? I figured she would be just perfect for you..

I have just spent a while noodling around your site. Lots of good information here - will be back to look some more, too.

You said you could use some ideas, so here are a couple of observations -

As Beth said, your header seems really big. I know you are working on your store at the moment, but after that you might consider making it a bit smaller. It takes up a whole lot of each page, and when I click on a button to look at something I am not sure I have gotten there, because I have to scroll down to see anything other than just what I was looking at on the homepage..know what I mean?

And the offsite links I see right below the buttons make me feel like I am already at the bottom of tha page. They are quite distracting, and would definately be better on the side, or at the bottom of the page.

Seems like there is alot of empty 'real estate' at the right of the header and between items on the page. I get that the space gives a sort of light feeling to the page, but it feels alittle unbalanced..
Oh, heck, now I see. Try centering the pages (View-Page Properties-tick the box that says Center in Browser)

I am looking at the addition page, and it is really good. (LOVE the information, btw, wish I would have had this site to look at back in '89..) but anyway, just noticed the in-page links, great idea, but would help if they were a little more definitive as links - maybe emphasised with a darker color, or button maybe - didn't get they were links at first glance.

On the Stories page, I love the quotations you have used below the peoples links, but they sort of blend in, and almost go unnoticed. How about trying an additional color of text, or maybe bolding parts to isolate and define a bit more?

Same with the quotations on the books page, and other in formatino on other pages on the sides - they are hiding amongst and underneath the links on the side.. these things are GOLD, and for 12-steppers looking for help here, it'd be nice to have them more visible.

Okay, there are some thoughts from me. I love your site, and like Cindy, will pass it along to other program people.

Good Luck - I will be looking forward to seeing your site grow and change

OK You guys. I have tons of work to do. Thanks so much for all this feedback. I am looking into having my banner/logo redone by a pro. He is a friend of my brother ~ David Shing

The other thought I had last night...

I was thinking David might make a great intro page to go with the header and separate the site. As said above I have a two fold site. So what if when arriving you have the option to go to TwelveBeads Shop or Information? The only thing I am not sure of is how to word the information part. Also Should it be three fold and have Shop ~ Addictions Information ~ Spiritual Information. Just rolling around ideas since I will be making some major changes ;)

Thats a good idea, as the more sections you have available at first glance, the more the viewer would be interested in exploring your site.

have fun

Gwen: Your friend David does nice work...but just not sure you need the flash intro thing going on for your particular site. I think flash has its place on the internet...just not sure it fits what you may wanting to accomplish. If you go that route, I would make it short and sweet. I would keep your focus twofold..not three. I feel the addictions info goes with the Spiritual info, because again, I feel, people with addictions aren't going to get through that without a higher power in their life. I'm just afraid if you broaden your catagories, you will then say..ummm maybe 4 or 5. Now if you are wanting to grow you site that way, then go for it. But if you really want to keep it focused on 2 areas I would keep that in mind. Cindy

Yes I see what your are saying. I am going to see if David does non-flash design. My main concern is keeping things clean. I will see how it all unfolds.

OK I started to make some changes ~ Before I go tooooo far can you guys take a peek and see if I am on the right track? Made header smaller on Shop page and started the pic gallery too. Added back button to the first four sets of beads on the shop page.
http://www.twelvebeads.com/Shop.html

HI Gwen
I like the smaller header, though I miss the flower..
When I click the x under the beads I select I expected to get just a page/info regarding that selection. Instead I get all the links, too, which again take up lots of the page I am looking at. I am thinking maybe the click could take me to just the selection, with info,price etc like youhave it, but maybe with an abreviated header, or a heading that says Prayer Beads or Agnes Prayer Beads, or whatever, but without all of the links to the other stuff - addictions, books, etc, just to the other bead selections, and a home button? (How is that for a run-on sentence?) What I am getting at is that when I cleck on a selection, I don't want to have to scroll at all; just want to look at the item.. If you still want that other stuff on the page, maybe just compress it a bit so it doesn't take up so much space. I could be off base, too, just my opinion..
Gotta say, sure like your beads.

Gwen, thats exactly what I had in mind, all you need to do now is to provide a link (text and picture if you wish) to the more details and buy button pages.

If you continue adding more of the same, why dont you break up/seperate each 12 bead pics as you go...................

OK ~ That is great info/feedback. Let me see what I can do.

P.S. ~ I like the flowers too but only used them on my home page as a seasonal thing. I am READY for SPRING!

Try Agnes now and see what you think~
http://www.twelvebeads.com/Shop.html

Originally Posted by TwelveBeads

Try Agnes now and see what you think~
http://www.twelvebeads.com/Shop.html

Wahoo!!
I mean, yes, that is exactly what I had in mind.. excellent!

Yay!!!!

Starting to take shape now Gwen........

Why dont you consider puting in a line of text after each 3 rows of beads(12 steps - 12 beads !!)
that would also give the viewers eyes a rest and encourage them to continue looking further down...............

i.e.
pic-------pi--------pic------pic
.
pic-------pi--------pic------pic
.
pic-------pi--------pic------pic
.
These unique one of a kind treasures make great recovery gifts for sponsors.
.
pic-------pi--------pic------pic
.
pic-------pi--------pic------pic
.
pic-------pi--------pic------pic
.
There are no two sets alike.

etc............

Talk about a tedious task! Do you think it needs to been broken up? I just took off the ads and added a couple testimonials to the side. I feel like it will never get done. I am seeing cross-eyed. ;)

Is the "Prayer Beads Shop" image too big?

I removed all links that did not relate to viewing beads ~ I left the Home and Contact links. I plan on making a Shopping Home page so when you click on HOME you will land on a page that gives you the option of shopping for PrayerBeads, Books or TheWildDivine. Of course I will add a link to exit shopping and view resources.

Unbroken pictures are like a long list of text, you need to break it up a little or the reader just switches off.
But if you put a question or bold a line of text then your eyes go to that and then continue reading.

Its a little trick I leaned some time ago......................

Cool ~ I will give it a whirl ~ Thanks David ;)

OK ~ I put some text in every fifth row. I made the background green to make it stand out but am not sure if it flows.

OK guys I am making all these changes and am not sure they are right. At one point my brother said your menu should be the same on every page. I removed those menus and am not sure what should be standard on every page? If I have to change everything again I think I will cry. But change I will if it needs to be done. Looking forward to your replies.

Gwen, your site is now MUCH easier to navigate and you have given the viewer some good signposts to find their way around.

Your brother makes sense when he tells you that menus should be consistant, but your almost there...........

The 3 links from your Shop can have the same Shop - Resources
link backs as you have done in your resources page.

Just a little more work, and your almost home............

I like the way you have re-arranged your pics page, much easier on the eyes.

Well done................

good luck with your site, and remember...........

have fun