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nick1346
08-01-2006, 11:18 AM
I've been busy the last week getting to grips with the mysterys of google adwords! Now when you open an account you get access to a spanking piece of tracker software, all you have to do is install the usuall bit of code in each page (I'm rapidly finding out how many pages I have!). Once your up and running you can monitor and analyze just about everything you can think of, unique or new viewers per page, geographical locations, how they found you, exits per page...... the list goes on. All of this information can be presented graphically as a summary or you can prepare in depth reports. On the summary side you are presented with the usual bar and pie charts but my favourite is the world map, it gives the location of each viewer as a dot the bigger the dot the more hits from that area, I know where you all are!
Another nice feature is the website overlay. Here you can view and navigate each page of your site but with handy bits of information like bars next to your links showing how often they have been used.

The downside is that you do have to open an adwords account (I think it cost a few pounds) and there may a be a bit to much information for some, but it may be worth looking into if you have a commercial site. I've installed the software on about a fifth of my site and discovered I had over 100 page hits yesterday on those, came as a bit of a surprise!

Bethers
08-01-2006, 08:06 PM
The other downside is that it's just another way Google is becoming "big daddy" or the new millenium's orwell prediction.

nick1346
08-02-2006, 08:43 AM
The other downside is that it's just another way Google is becoming "big daddy" or the new millenium's orwell prediction.

Oh no that's Tesco's!http://www.vodahost.com/vodatalk/images/icons/icon7.gif

pemdas21
08-03-2006, 08:17 PM
I think that google is "da bomb". Here is what it looks like (the google analytics that is) when you want to know everything. :) http://www.electronics4dummies.com/e4d.jpg

islandcrazy
08-03-2006, 09:17 PM
ok...that is really scarey......google is stalking me.....lol

pemdas21
08-04-2006, 12:41 AM
I love google and its different things. Tells me a lot about my visitors too. (I can tell what your screen resolution is, browser, platform, almost anything)

Vasili
08-04-2006, 01:45 AM
This discussion seems to be a furtherance of some of the others I have actually participated in recently....without a sense of personal resolution - yet!

I am not particularly fond of recent developments, statements, and program introductions from AOL, Google, Yahoo! and some lesser few whatsoever! I have continued to caution my VodaPeers about the nuances of being lured by seemingly harmless functionality into a posture of vulnerability and potential liability.....

Like Beth, Karen, and a few others, I believe the real (yet hidden for the most part) agenda of Google is complete domination of internet access and use, strictly for financial gain. Think this too far? How about JUST TODAY the announcement from AOL that they will no longer charge clients monthly fees for dialup and DSL.....they "need to compete with the emergence of Google as the dominant force in online advertising and information" brokering....(This is just on the heels of their program to charge 1/4 cent per email for "Certified Delivery" to AOL clients, permission-based/customer supplied programs or not! If you wanted to send to an AOL client, you'd end up paying!)
> What is FREE today will cost tomorrow, and like some utilities they introduce "for free" that is completely tied into their own framework (Google Ads, AdSense, Froogle, GetMail, Premier Mail Certification, etc.), it merely sets the stage for them to later dictate terms on everything from email to advertising/commerce/ranking based on PARTICIPATION with them (at whatever PRICE).

I'm with Beth....I rely on the uniquness of my concept, the accuracy of my execution, and the independence of my own spirit to define my future.
I am not afraid to selectively pay for and invest time in making this a commitment that can still inspire others....

PS: The VodaHost utility works just fine, especially when involved with VodaHits....and if you need more, archaic programs like Urchin and PageManage prices are now affordable to all but the extremely cheap! I remember the time they were the ONLY utility, and each cost more than $700 per year....MY! How soon we forget......

Vasili
08-04-2006, 02:05 AM
AFTERTHOUGHT:

Maybe we should all just keep our heads down, do OUR web stuff so excellently that VodaLand becomes the most vibrant online Community and wellspring of internet success ever???

Then maybe the "control freaks" will have to come knocking on OUR door!

pemdas21
08-04-2006, 06:20 AM
Isn't almost every online companies agenda to dominate the net? It is a seemingly impossible idea, but slowly becoming a reality. I don't really mind. These are extra things that I don't really care if I have, but they are great! I use gmail for your domain, gmail, google analytics, google adsense, their search engine etcetera! They have earned my interest through many ways. Is a monopoly that bad? If they begin to let their quality slowly slip, then noone will use them anymore, simple as that. If they quit producing, then they will no longer get any business. End of story. I support google and what they do right NOW. Who knows what will happen tomorrow. I really don't care right now. Yeah, bluevoda is a good thing, but I don't see any reason why I should have to pay for a service that I can get for free right now... Lets say I have to buy a domain... I am not going to buy it from the most expensive company, because a domain is a domain... I will purchase it through www.1and1.com because they sell them for $1.99! Same goes for everything else. If they have the same stuff, why not go for the cheaper one? So what if google is "big daddy"? Does it really make a difference? And I don't think that they are ever going to get everyone, because some people are to obstinate to switch. Like a relative of mine. He does everything through yahoo just to p*** me off. There are always going to be people like that. *inhales*

Vasili
08-04-2006, 08:16 AM
Read into the scenario further, my friend.

Do you have a business that depends on a lean capitalization model built primarily on the technology platform (with built-in versatilty for tomorrow's innovations) rather than the traditional frameworks that these "issues" might impact, or do you see your generalizations as an extension of a personal experience that applies universally?

> Plainly: I have shared my "opinion" which is based on fact concerning very real influences on my ability to conduct an ongoing business with the same manner of freedoms I had believed would remain for quite some time.
Since the internet and online conduct has not been clearly defined and is yet resistant to regulation, the fact Congress is trying to find a way to tax sales and expand on exploring ways to control online conduct is the very motivation companies like AOL and Google are SCRAMBLING to set precedence by enacting their own revenue schemes....like collecting "fees" or "tarriffs" on email delivery (initially).... AND (here's my main point, and illustration for the obtuse)....this is the immediate impact I have experienced:

A. Since my companies thrive on Customer Collection and Cultivation, we use email extensively: we send a minimum of 220,000 emails to enrolled/permission-opted customers per month; in June of 221,169 sent 26% (57,503) went to AOL customers, who now demands $143 for the privilege of actually having my emails delivered when it did not cost me previously, which translates into $1700+ annually for a medium that used to be FREELY available.

B. Add the proposed rate of a half-cent for a similar program from Yahoo!, and a bundled price of 1/3 cent for MSN (which includes hotmail) and my average cost to send out 92% of my monthly emails NOW is apporximately $2800 - TODAY! Who knows about 2 months from now, right?

C. Since I must now rely on a Certifiable Sender (or course, a Perferred Provider/Partner to Google - only 1 mind you), when I add in THEIR fee, you are now looking at approximately $4500 per month (or about $55,000 annually) to do what I did for FREE only 3 months ago.

This "fee" structure, this ability to introduce "tiers" or "classes" of users and Use to the World Wide Web is more dangerous than you could so naievely defend, my young friend.

This one new "cost of doing business" is more than a small "overhead variable" to absorb quietly.....and I feel I am not alone in this. They may be irrelevant numbers to causual internetters like yourself, but even in my small group of companies, they are enough to cause long debates during lunch. I know what it means now, the bottom line....but since you feel so strongly about the logistical justification and defensibility of these "developments,"...tell me:

Whose job will I need to cut to be able to absorb the immediacy of this capital cost? This $55,000 represents the salary of one of my trusted and loyal Managers, 2 of my outside Sales Associates, or 2 of the part-time assistant administrators here in the office.

The fact that I need to continue to utilize email as a means to generate revenue will not cease.

The fact that I have 100 families depending on their employment with my corporate group wil not change...until a decision is made who cannot be sustained in order to maintain the company. (I am personally pretty proud of that....100 families...a benchmark for me, something much bigger than even my own father ever accomplished).

You preach Caveat Emptor? Yet you cannot even begin to afford the personal investment of a sound future of the society you live in by blindly clutching your personal penchant for doing things on the cheap with complete disregard for preserving the universal privilege of CHOICE! This is not like a conversation about a "market driven economy" - it is about an influence that threatens the ability of the individual to have a voice in making independent decisions and preserving visions (remember, this is not politically motivated, it is money-driven....Um-Ahhh anyone recall the influence exerted by ENRON on the power outages? how many people died, and where was there any choices left to be considered? AND-the internet is NOT a governmental utility)

I suppose it is a perspective of scale after all. I know I am 30 years older than you (my GOD, that was hard to admit!), and my life experiences vastly differ from yours, but I am still taken aback at your minimizing the issue with petty comparisons..........

Think about it.....in my terms....and DO reply!
WHOSE JOB DO I CUT SEPTEMBER 1st ??

Just so you can have it "your way"???

pemdas21
08-04-2006, 06:28 PM
That is something for you to ponder, a new obstacle in internet business. There are always going to be new obstacles, and new ways around them. Find a new way of business. Heck, if it gets bad enough, create your own mail system, that people can rely on. Here is what I believe will happen if this goes to the extreme: the internet will die because 2-3 people will become extremely rich... They will have a monopoly. And so, the internet will be abandoned for a while (by the majority of people) and reconstructed to become more safe, and less vulnerable to various things. There will be new laws instilled in the system to prevent this sort of thing happening. Yes, I think that it is horrible that you will have to cut someone... But maybe, just maybe, that is the sort of thing that people will need to see in order to fix this. Here is an analogy: There is a main drag that heads through town, but the town is very small, so they don't have a stop light in where there is an intersection. As the town grows, that intersection becomes more hazardous, but there is still no stop light. Finally, there is a horrible wreck, causing a death, and many eyes to open. So the city puts up a stop light, to help prevent this from happening again. I believe that it will take exactly what you are afraid of to have anything done about it. So the quicker it can happen, the better it will be. Do you see where I am going with this?

pemdas21
08-04-2006, 06:30 PM
After thought, how old are you really? because I am just a child... Don't even have my drivers liscense yet...

Vasili
08-04-2006, 10:48 PM
I know you are 14 (ever since you put your site up for review, remember?), so, FINE... call me a liar for being 46... LOL

I really don't think you get the real point I am stumping.....
The fact that an influence can be made upon an unregulated technology (which has become critical to today's way of life) for profit unjustifiably and without regard for the overall abridgement of personal Freedoms is beyond comprehension.....there has been nothing like it in our history to compare to, as the "rules" are not only still being written, but change almost daily in an effort to defy any sense of regulation or compliance to a "standardization".....

Unlike your intersection example, it is as if the road itself is being re-paved with exposed razors, forcing all who desire to drive through this town (living there or not) to buy a certain tire at whatever cost is demanded by the guy who parks his trailer at the entrance to town (who is respnsible for paving the road late at night before anyone could stop him)....and this is being done before any law can be written to protect the interests of the townspeople, transient visitors, those just "passing through" and even governmental interests like the Power company coming to repair the downed lines in front of your house....FORCED to buy these tires (at whatever cost) and powerless to find alternative means, and without recourse even from the government (the Law): the precedence is extremely dangerous let alone nearly impossible to correct or retract...

The comprehensive weaving of "programs" and "constructive dependence" is not a new tactic, but the manner of this implementation IS...the scope, and the effects.

Understand a little more now?

pemdas21
08-05-2006, 05:57 AM
I understand your point, and I have, but your most recent post has sparked a bit of an idea... I didn't totally realize what it would mean for our economy, meaning that the general public probably wouldn't either... So, I suggest that we somehow set up an information site, opening the publics eyes... Send out a series of public fyi's. Not everyone has thought about it from your perspective, so create a war over it, or at least a battle until some form of a treaty is made. Pull some strings here and there. People need to know. If this is going to cost the jobs of millions of people around the world so that a few people can get rich, then that is wrong. I suppose that I am looking at this from more of the old style of communism. It sounds great, but it won't go over because people are to greedy when they begin to recieve more and more money.

Vasili
08-05-2006, 06:10 AM
Hmmm....how to inspire a Global "Tea Party" in Cyberspace???

A back-end, long term result could be to promote VodaHost so successfully that they have enough funding to become the NEXT IP???

This really is an important issue, from the largest perspective, and I am relieved that you have begun to see it also....

pemdas21
08-06-2006, 01:48 AM
Okay, but what I am saying is try to start a new revolution, by both promoting your product, and by demoting google and the like.

Vasili
08-06-2006, 02:46 AM
REM?
"We should continue to strive toward excellence in our online efforts, thus elevating VodaHost as the Premier Provider, eventually emerging as a new ISP itself....THEN the others will knock on our doors as we are the singularly finest successful online Community, with great influence of our own to contend with"

In the meantime, however, were each of us to regularly send out infoLetters, or Advisements to our customer/member/client lists and rosters our position and to elicit support from them by sending an email of protest (swamping them), then we might in fact have a significant recourse....our own Tea Party worthy of being picked up by the trade magazines...(which is truly both effective and self-serving: we all get publicity, and are "grandfathered" into the "True Crew" of the VodaHost factor....

nick1346
08-06-2006, 10:02 AM
Very thought provoking, it goes to show that you do not know what you do not know. In a way you have already started your tea party, I was not really that aware of the issues you have raised Vasili, I had a hazy idea that not all was smelling of roses but not really as bad as you point out. The internet is a 'liberal' forum, it developed within the framework of free and open exchange of information and views. Now many of those pioneering organisations such as google want to change the rules, maybe they need a good kick in the electronics and discussions like this is where it will begin. Question is are people prepared to stand up to these companies or will people just sit back and let it happen.http://www.vodahost.com/vodatalk/images/icons/icon5.gif

Vasili
08-06-2006, 10:31 AM
Very thought provoking, it goes to show that you do not know what you do not know. In a way you have already started your tea party, I was not really that aware of the issues you have raised Vasili, I had a hazy idea that not all was smelling of roses but not really as bad as you point out. The internet is a 'liberal' forum, it developed within the framework of free and open exchange of information and views. Now many of those pioneering organisations such as google want to change the rules, maybe they need a good kick in the electronics and discussions like this is where it will begin. Question is are people prepared to stand up to these companies or will people just sit back and let it happen.http://www.vodahost.com/vodatalk/images/icons/icon5.gif
Exactly!
I was beginning to feel as if I was running the risk of being shut down for being Chiken Little!

The issue really IS about Freedom, about the opportunity for the human spirit to thrive and evolve within the framwork of the global community the WWW represents....and it should NEVER be perverted by attempts for control or dominance by any single group, especially for revenue!

I really think the 2-pronged effort to build VH into a very visible influence (as long as we really do present an outstanding community with our websites, bonding, etc. -- all the strengths we now have and can use "free") with our combined economic strength as businesses AND a concerted effort to instigate a sustained effort to literally swamp (if not consistently shut down) their servers with volumes of protest email - created by our eliciting like kind response from our vast client pools additionally - would be not only newsworthy, but relatively effective. On the back side it might even posture VH in a much more visible role in the defining the WWW future.....who knows? Maybe VH is the next big ISP!!!

In the meantime - today it's a "tarriff" on email, and tomorrow it could be 'justifiable' for the same ISP to charge for outgoing email to rival ISP clients! Who knows where it might end....

The grand scheme is to form, manage, control, and peddle influence to manicured internet "communities" or "preferred Groups" by way of advertising and economic pressure, hence the Preferred Advertisers status, whitelists, and higher rates for those 'marketers' not presently participating in the advertising programs, like AOL keywords, or AdSense.... >> Why doesn't anyone get the fact you have to buy into AdSense to get Googles Analytics, which just 4 months ago still had hundreds of professional webmasters on the waiting list - now the give it "free"???? *And the results are already starting to show ranking preference for sites that participate in Google programs.....WHOOPS! I meant "practices" and conformities.....

Yes, it will cost me some money and some logistical tip-toeing, but I will emerge nonetheless.....but I get pretty p***ed off when a smartass tries to pick my pocket all the while grinning at me sheepishly just because everyone else is afraid to call him a thief first!

nick1346
08-06-2006, 01:59 PM
So ultimately the big powerhouses of the net will be the only ones who get noticed, the littleman will be pushed to the obscure backwaters only accessable via dodgy internet 'tubes'.

Makes me think of the average user. Most people seem to only use the net for commercial activities, pay a bill, check a bank balance, buy a book to those people google, aol etc are service providers like electricty generating companies and to them it may be resonable that they pay a small amount for email etc. They may also think it reasonable that the search engines sort out the 'wheat from the chaff' after all who wants to buy a book from someone you've never heard of? It's those people who need to be reached. Hmmmm

spikey
09-14-2006, 05:38 AM
what i love about Google is you don't have to pay alto of money to advertise to yr site you can do it with at least as 5$ and that's so cheep and effective