Shapes or Tables or ?

[Stevo]

When creating a page in BV in which several different colored rectangles and squares will be used for header, body, text, etc., is it best to use Shapes or Tables? Does one load quicker and/or is more SE-friendly than the other? Any replies and information will be appreciated.

Thanks.

Steve

[Vasili]

Re: Shapes or Tables or ?

When creating a page in BV in which several different colored rectangles and squares will be used for header, body, text, etc., is it best to use Shapes or Tables? Does one load quicker and/or is more SE-friendly than the other? Any replies and information will be appreciated. Thanks. Steve

Shapes. Just like instructed in all the Tutorials.
And remember to set with anti-alias for best resolution.

Tables are a formatting device to help organize elements on a page (mostly text, or text-with-images, as in "cells"), and are not "objects" that consistute form that when organized will allow you to achieve design or build standards. It is certainly not difficult to see how you can overlay and precisely align shapes, whereas a table simply is the wrong tool for the job, right?

Although shapes have ALT Text abilities, it is best not to use them, as they do not contribute to any SEO values and tend instead to dilute and 'confuse' any properly configured SEO efforts, not being properly composed Page Content nor the same as a titled image with ALT Text for the SE to "translate" for visually impaired Visitors (the original intended use for ALT Text). Don't need to 'bend the fence' when it comes to over-stuffing your pages with useless "spammy" items.

Page load times? Shapes are dynamically created according to the coded configurations you set using BlueVoda to generate the code. Tables populate (a process) themselves according to the commanded configurations you set, whether the items are purely coded colors or with objects that themselves have to load. Which sounds "quicker" overall?

Don't get too myopically focused on minutia such as load times for your website ..... there are many, many websites that load slowly, especially those with media or Flash page sections that take longer than the stated averages.

SEO does not pivot on page load times, but on deep relevance and construct compliance to create favorable values and attributable Metrics. Make sure you have done your due diligence in developing your Content (including proper page-specific relevant Titles for your images), simple META, H-META Tags, and other aspects that properly demonstrate the uniqueness of your site to the Search Engines as they require.

Load times is so far out of the realm of considerations for site valuations, mostly due to the incomprehensible margin of User Connection variables, which is why Google has recently narrowed their prime indicators with respect to real relevancy and Content validity. Page load time is merely a statistic, a number of fact, and if anything, an awareness to maintain when designing a website from the perspective of Visitor convenience.
It is something of a factor in Construct evaluation, but only if extraordinary times are required or if connection is strained as in app-hang or as a symptom of improper operation (malware, etc.). But that is all.

Don't over-think the basics, just nail them!


Unlike as in Blue Voda, in Drteamweaver for example, your begin creating pages using "Tables" (and in CMS they are called "Modules"), so if you read something somewhere about using 'Tables' it is important that you remember BlueVoda is very Wiindows-based, and the Table tool in BlueVoda is more like what you see in Word, Publisher, or the like, and completely different than as seen in Dremaweaver, Flash, etc..

[navaldesign]

Re: Shapes or Tables or ?

Tables. Or, even better, a Layer. Just two or three lines of code that instruct the browser to display a rectangle with specific backgrounf and border as desired. It is at least (in the worst case) loading 10 times faster than a shape as it requires only 60 - 80 bytes.

Shapes (BV shapes are not browser created elements, they are converted by BV in images when you publish the page, therefore with a code that is at least 800+ bytes) are to be used when a table or layer doesn't allow you to acheive what you want (like with gradient background colors)

With a layer you can also create gradient backgrounds usiing a gradient image and setting, in the layer properties / layout, the background image to be repeated (just as you can also do with a table cell). This allows to use a small image (800 - 900 bytes), whereas a gradient shape of let's say half the size of the screen, can be several KBytes

DW and other HTML Editors as especially CMSs (Soholaunch included) use tables for the layout because they allow dynamic expansion of the pages or portions of the pages.

BV uses absolute positioning through css which, of course, allows for WYSIWYG results but disallows these "floating", adaptive layouts.

With a bit of programming knowledge you can use BV to create dynamic layouts by adding the necessary code in the various element's HTML.

But that's another story.......

[Vasili]

Re: Shapes or Tables or ?

It would be nice, then, to outline the steps recommended in contrast to the Tutorials that are provided so everyone could take advantage of the 'advanced' methods you mention. Otherwise it seems this would be more confusing than practical, yes?

[navaldesign]

Re: Shapes or Tables or ?

I can't actually recall the "shapes" tutorial, but I don't think it ever treated with the use of shapes as backgrounds. Shapes can be also other than rectangles and used to create banners, and other similar stuff. Using rectangles as backgrounds is not a normal use for a shape (rectangle), so it is not mentioned in the tutorials (I believe).

[Vasili]

Re: Shapes or Tables or ?

Well, generally the Tutorials teach Shapes as the manner in which to create backgrounds, headers, and other aspects to create Templates and Page Designs, in 2 separate Tutorials, and there is not a mention of Layers (unfortunately ... maybe because they do not have the same "added features" such as shadows, mirroring, and different "shapes" like rectangle, rounded corners, etc.??).
Creating your own templates with shapes
Shapes – creating and editing – Using the shapes feature

The use of layers is a great suggestion to use whenever possible to keep page file size "light," but in answering the original question within the scope of general BlueVoda methodology and the resources available, I thought it best to make the distinction between "Shapes" and "Tables" as I did ... to maintain that continuity, so everyone can easily duplicate the processes themselves. Yes?

[navaldesign]

Re: Shapes or Tables or ?

As I mentioned already,

"shapes are to be used when a table or layer doesn't allow you to acheive what you want "

For the simple colored rectangle Stevo asked for , layers are best.

Tutorials are addressed to newcomers who know little or nothing, so this seems to be the simpler solution.

But a more experienced user discovers and uses better techniques than the simple ones in the tutorials.

Please note that with the upcoming HTML5 and css3 you can create shadows and gradients and effects (rounded corners) directly from code so images (shapes) use will be limited even more.

[Vasili]

Re: Shapes or Tables or ?

Please note that with the upcoming HTML5 and css3 you can create shadows and gradients and effects (rounded corners) directly from code so images (shapes) use will be limited even more.

Will VodaHost then be expanding Blue Voda to include these updated methods to use to greater potential, or will this be within reach only to those who learn CSS and a degree of coding? Not everyone desires to code themselves, which is the whole desirability of Blue Voda, I believe ...

[navaldesign]

Re: Shapes or Tables or ?

HTML5 (just as the one currently in use) and css3 provide tools (tags, comands) to allow building HTML elements.

BV will (probably) be enriched with tools that will allow to take advantage of these new features without need to code. After all. this is what makes BV so popular: the ability to create codeless sites. So you will probably have a properties dialog box similar to the one used today for shapes, that will allow you to just set the properties of the object as you want them and will be creating the necessary code without any need for the user to write a single line of code.

[Stevo]

Re: Shapes or Tables or ?

The BV forum has once again provided outstanding information. Thanks to both of you for the great details. Wasn't aware of Layers...don't recall mention of them in tutorials and regret I didn't happen upon that subject before. Henceforth, I'll use Layers whenever I can, Shapes when I need their design advantages and Tables, when called for.

With a layer you can also create gradient backgrounds usiing a gradient image and setting, in the layer properties / layout,

Hmmm...maybe I'm missing something but I don't find the gradient option as being available in Layers.

Nonetheless, thanks much Vasili and Naval for the excellent direction, as usual.

Steve

[navaldesign]

Re: Shapes or Tables or ?

You must create a gradient image (horizzontal or vertical). You can use a BV shape for this. If the gradient must be in the horizzontal direction, make it wide the same as the layer, and high just 3 - 5 pixels. Then save it and set this image as the layer background. Last, set the background image to "repeat" in vertical direction.

[Stevo]

Re: Shapes or Tables or ?

Great! Again, thank you.

Steve