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Bethers
04-19-2006, 10:08 AM
I do use inline frames for some instances. My reason for writing this is for those of you who might wonder why the se's aren't finding all your pages or reading your site correctly.

First, here is a link directly to Google:
http://www.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=474&topic=357

Then here is a link that Google recommends:
http://searchenginewatch.com/webmasters/article.php/2167901

Just realize, if you use inline frames for your header, navigation and footer - chances are none of that information is going to be read by the se's - unless you add that info as shown in the 2nd link. And if you also put the text of your page in an iframe - you might as well forget any of your text being read. It, like images, will disappear.

I'm not going to repeat what those links say. I do want to emphasize, tho, that while iframes are a great help, they also have to be used with care to make sure that your website gets the maximum necessary exposure.

If any of you wonder what the search engines see - go to the Google search bar and type in site:www.yourdomainname.com (replace your domain name with your name, or any legit domain name). What comes up are the pages that Google has spidered on that domain. If you click on "cached" for one of the pages - it will show the page as it was when they spidered. Now, if you click on where it says "Click here for cached text only" in the text at the top of the page, you will see just what of your page Google sees and reads.

You might be surprised by what isn't there.

navaldesign
04-20-2006, 04:36 PM
Just tried it, with Amanda's site: click on

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:99VcPyIRVeIJ:www.girlonthehill.co.u k/+&hl=it&ct=clnk&cd=1

also with mine

http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:iUx28qil2EMJ:www.navaldesign.info/+navaldesign&hl=it&ct=clnk&cd=2

which uses an i-frame which covers the whole page.

Then also with limerbrook's site :

http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:wOmKJjXzUxcJ:www.limebrook.com/+&hl=it&ct=clnk&cd=1

I can see no problem at all. Also, please consider that the problem with frames is more relevant to following external URL's and not internal ones. I will try to get some more information and come back on the issue

Bethers
04-20-2006, 08:48 PM
Now, click on this (just did your naval design site):
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:iUx28qil2EMJ:www.navaldesign.info/+navaldesign&hl=it&lr=&strip=1
and this is the cached site that google actually sees - the whole page shows up yes, but the se's do NOT read all of it.

I'm not saying not to use any frames, but I am saying that they can hurt with SEO - and if used, you have to be very careful that you get that information on pages where the se's can read it.

BTW, with Amanda's site, her header is covering where you click to see the cached text, but if you quickly do so before it covers it - you'll end up with a blank screen - as you can see easier by using some other pages of the site.

The pages you pulled up are not what Google sees - the page I showed you for your site is - and for limebrooks:
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:wOmKJjXzUxcJ:www.limebrook.com/+&hl=it&lr=&strip=1

You find these by clicking to display cached text only AFTER you get to the pages you gave.

navaldesign
04-20-2006, 09:15 PM
Hi Bethers, what i said is that in my IE i can see all of my page in Google's cache. Indeed on your link, apparently there is only part of my text. BUT, just click on Edit, Select All and there you will see that all of my text is there except for the dropdown menu text (and links) which is a well known issue, non depending on the use of i-frames. I did the same for Trish's site, and, although i did not do a word by word reading, i think that all of her text is there also. I surely want to go deeper in this. I'll be back with more information if i find some

Girlonthehill
04-20-2006, 09:35 PM
Bethers - Will it help if I ensure that all the items contained within the i-frames have full Alt descriptions? Would the spiders pick up the text then?

navaldesign
04-20-2006, 09:45 PM
This is Amanda's text cache on Google source code:

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=US-ASCII">
<BASE HREF="<A href="http://www.girlonthehill.co.uk/"><table">http://www.girlonthehill.co.uk/"><table border=1 width=100%><tr><td><table border=1 bgcolor=#ffffff cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0 width=100% color=#ffffff><tr><td><font face="" color=black size=-1>This is <b><font color=#0039b6>G</font> <font color=#c41200>o</font> <font color=#f3c518>o</font> <font color=#0039b6>g</font> <font color=#30a72f>l</font> <font color=#c41200>e</font></b>'s text-only <a href="<A href="http://www.google.com/help/features.html#cached"><font">http://www.google.com/help/features.html#cached"><font color=blue>cache</font></a> of <A HREF="<A href="http://www.girlonthehill.co.uk/"><font">http://www.girlonthehill.co.uk/"><font color=blue>http://www.girlonthehill.co.uk/</font></a> as retrieved on 7 Apr 2006 18:05:28 GMT.<br>
<b><font color=#0039b6>G</font> <font color=#c41200>o</font> <font color=#f3c518>o</font> <font color=#0039b6>g</font> <font color=#30a72f>l</font> <font color=#c41200>e</font></b>'s cache is the snapshot that we took of the page as we crawled the web.<br>
The page may have changed since that time. Click here for the <A HREF="<A href="http://www.girlonthehill.co.uk/"><font">http://www.girlonthehill.co.uk/"><font color=blue>current page</font></a> without highlighting.<br>
Click here for the <A HREF="<A href="http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:99VcPyIRVeIJ:www.girlonthehill.co.u k/+&hl=it&lr=&strip=0"><font">http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:99VcPyIRVeIJ:www.girlonthehill.co.u k/+&hl=it&lr=&strip=0"><font color=blue>full cached page</font></a> with images included.<br>To link to or bookmark this page, use the following url: <code>http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:99VcPyIRVeIJ:www.girlonthehill.co.u k/+&amp;hl=it&amp;lr=&amp;strip=1</code></font><br><br><center><font size=-2><i>Google is neither affiliated with the authors of this page nor responsible for its content.</i></font></center></td></tr></table></td></tr></table>
<hr>
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">
<TITLE>Girl Home Page</TITLE>
<META name="AUTHOR" content="Girl on the Hill - Exclusive, Luxury Handcrafted Cards for all Occasions">
<META name="KEYWORDS" content="handcrafted, luxury, bespoke, handmade, designer, luxury handcrafted cards, bespoke greeting cards, beautiful cards, paypal accepted, stunning, original handcrafted cards, luxurious handmade cards, bespoke wedding stationery, special handcrafted card, anniversary, new baby, congratulations, gifts, jewellery, experiences, fragrance, fashion, lingerie, hampers, flowers,">
<META name="DESCRIPTION" content="The home page of Girl on the Hill exclusive, luxury, bespoke handcrafted cards and wedding stationery. Great gift ideas and Paypal accepted.">
<META http-equiv="Page-Enter" content="blendTrans(Duration=1)">
<META name="GENERATOR" content="Created by BlueVoda">
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#4B00D7" text="#FFFFFF" style="SCROLLBAR-FACE-COLOR:#B76FFF;SCROLLBAR-ARROW-COLOR:#290053;SCROLLBAR-3DLIGHT-COLOR:#E6CCFF;SCROLLBAR-DARKSHADOW-COLOR:#5900B3;SCROLLBAR-HIGHLIGHT-COLOR:#F4EAFF;SCROLLBAR-SHADOW-COLOR:#7600EC;SCROLLBAR-TRACK-COLOR:#D3A8FF;">
<DIV style="position:absolute;left:541px;top:310px;width:173px ;height:469px;z-index:0" align="left">
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<FONT style="FONT-SIZE:20pt" color="#FFFFFF" face="Georgia">HOME PAGE&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT><FONT style="FONT-SIZE:20pt" color="#FFFFFF" face="Georgia">HOME PAGE&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; HOME PAGE&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; HOME PAGE</FONT>
</DIV>
<DIV style="position:absolute;left:34px;top:331px;width:437px; height:249px;z-index:3" align="justify">
<FONT style="FONT-SIZE:12pt" color="#FF0080" face="Georgia"><B>Welcome</B></FONT><FONT style="FONT-SIZE:12pt" color="#FFFFFF" face="Georgia"><B> to the second version of my handcrafted card site.&nbsp; I hope you like the design changes.&nbsp; I've simplified the page structure and made it much easier to use.&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
I've been making hand-crafted cards for a couple of years now and have had such a good response from friends, family and customers that I decided to make a website that would enable me to offer my work to a wider audience.&nbsp; </B></FONT><FONT style="FONT-SIZE:12pt" color="#FFFFFF" face="Georgia"><B>I get such a kick out of making them - I feel like each is a mini piece of artwork and I get great satisfaction from seeing and hearing of the reaction they bring.&nbsp; </B></FONT><FONT style="FONT-SIZE:14pt" color="#000000" face="Georgia"><BR>
</FONT>
</DIV>
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<!-- CounterData.com Code START --><a href="http://www.girlonthehill.co.uk/" target="_blank">Girl on the Hill</a><br><a href="http://www.girlonthehill.co.uk/" title="Girl on the Hill" target="_blank" style="font-family: Geneva, Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif; font-size: 10px; color: #000000; text-decoration: none;">Girl on the Hill</a><font style="font-family: Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:
10px; color: #000000; text-decoration : none;"> Counter</font><!-- CounterData.com -->
</DIV>
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<FONT style="FONT-SIZE:12pt" color="#FFFFFF" face="Georgia"><B>My materials are sourced from around the world, many I design myself either by hand or using my pc.&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
Each card you buy from </B></FONT><FONT style="FONT-SIZE:12pt" color="#FF0080" face="Georgia"><B>Girl on the Hill</B></FONT><FONT style="FONT-SIZE:12pt" color="#0000FF" face="Georgia"><B><I><U> </U></I> </B></FONT><FONT style="FONT-SIZE:12pt" color="#FFFFFF" face="Georgia"><B>is made, 100%, by me and they are priced - very reasonably - to reflect the time, effort and the most beautiful materials that go into making them.&nbsp; Judge for yourself and enjoy the appreciation that giving and receiving beautiful cards, with the added personal touch, brings.</B></FONT>
</DIV>
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<TR>
<TD align="left" valign="top" width="142" height="142"><TABLE border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<TR><TD align="center" valign="top" width="142" height="142"><A href="PC190015 (432 x 600).jpg"></A></TD></TR></TABLE>
</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD align="left" valign="top" width="142" height="142"><TABLE border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<TR><TD align="center" valign="top" width="142" height="142"><A href="P4010017.jpg"></A></TD></TR></TABLE>
</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD align="left" valign="top" width="142" height="142"><TABLE border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<TR><TD align="center" valign="top" width="142" height="142"><A href="P4010011.jpg"></A></TD></TR></TABLE>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
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<!-- PayPal Logo --><table border="0" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0" align="center"><tr><td align="center"></td></tr>
<tr><td align="center"><a href="#" onclick="javascript:window.open('https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/popup/OLCWhatIsPayPal-outside','olcwhatispaypal','toolbar=no, location=no, directories=no, status=no, menubar=no, scrollbars=yes, resizable=no, width=400, height=350');">Acceptance Mark</a></td></tr></table><!-- PayPal Logo --><A href="<A href="https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/popup/OLCWhatIsPayPal-outside"></A">https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/popup/OLCWhatIsPayPal-outside"></A>
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<!-- PayPal Logo --><table border="0" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0" align="center"><tr><td align="center"></td></tr>
<tr><td align="center"><a href="#" onclick="javascript:window.open('https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/popup/OLCWhatIsPayPal-outside','olcwhatispaypal','toolbar=no, location=no, directories=no, status=no, menubar=no, scrollbars=yes, resizable=no, width=400, height=350');">Solution Graphics</a></td></tr></table><!-- PayPal Logo -->
</DIV>
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<A href=http://www.girlonthehill.co.uk/guestbook/></A>
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<FONT style="FONT-SIZE:10pt" color="#FFFFFF" face="Georgia">Click here!</FONT>
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<FONT style="FONT-SIZE:14pt" color="#000000" face="Georgia">I have handpicked my links to provide you with great gift ideas like: jewellery, fragrance, fashion, lingerie, days out, chocolates, </FONT><FONT style="FONT-SIZE:14pt" color="#000000" face="Georgia">toys, </FONT><FONT style="FONT-SIZE:14pt" color="#000000" face="Georgia">gadgets, experiences, flowers,&nbsp; pampering and luxury.</FONT>
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<A HREF="<A href="http://www.bluevodaexchangelink.com/">Bluevoda">http://www.bluevodaexchangelink.com/">Bluevoda Exchange Link</a>
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Your browser does not support inline frames or is currently configured not to display inline frames.
</BODY>
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As you can see ALL od Amanda's text is there.

navaldesign
04-20-2006, 09:58 PM
Please also verify it at:

www.navaldesign.info/Amanda/amanda_google_text_cache.html (http://www.navaldesign.info/Amanda/amanda_google_text_cache.html)

It is very slow to load because i did not resized it, in order to have the best possible quality so the page would result very clear. Please be patient. i think taht ALL the text in Amanda's page is there, as well as all of her metatags (see post above)

Girlonthehill
04-20-2006, 10:00 PM
I'm not going to quote you Naval as we'd all be here all night scrolling down the page! Lol.

Thank you for that little bit of wizardry, I was a little concerned but then wondered that it might not be that bad if I have achieved a PR of 4. I have filled in all my alt text fields anyway - just in case :o)

Bethers
04-20-2006, 10:37 PM
Yes, alt descriptions are picked up.

But, naval, you are confusing what Google shows to us of the page and what they read and use to give page rank and for in the searches. The page I showed you is what they are reading. If the alt tags show up on the page, then they are reading them.

Just as they don't read pictures, but the pictures show on the screen- which is why we need alt tags for them.

I was at a seminar with a Google representative and he pointed me to the post I used and told me that as long as I'm doing stores and need to have my pages read - and indexed entirely, NOT to use the iframes. I have to listen to him, as this is my bread and butter -

As I said, I still use them in places, but I'm very careful about them. Like, I will probably make one for my header, as it is all a picture and not going to be "read" anyway - but I want the alt in the nav bar to be read - and I will not put that or my footer for a store into an iframe until and unless Google or one of the other major se's tell me they start reading them differently.

Now, if BV would have "header" or "navigation" or "footer" sections that could propagate on all pages, it would be pretty close to perfect.

navaldesign
04-20-2006, 11:47 PM
Bethers, i don't want to go on with this. So, just this last word: the text cache of Google (and other se) is what, as YOU correctly have put it, what their crawlers read. So, definetely, if the text used on these pages, has been included in Google's TEXT CACHE, it means that Google has understood it as TEXT, and takes into consideration on page ranking. Not as pictures or anything non understandable. That is why i put up mine and Amanda'sS TEXT cache . Just have a look at the link i provided for Amanda's site. It is clearly stated that it is the TEXT cache. And what you see there is NOT the ALT descriptions, it is the text of the page, all covered by an I-frame. Anyway, when an i-frame is used for the navigation and the header, the main page content is crawled well, and only the header and menu might have some problem. The menubar, and especcially dropdowns, are hard to follow anyway. For the header, the alt Tag is the solution. But the main content is there, as well as all the metatags.

VodaHost
04-21-2006, 01:55 AM
I think this thread Should be moved to the search engine section.