Page Names & Metatags

[Saturn77]

After reading many posts on Metatags, I'm still not sure on exactly how they should be listed. Now let's say my business name is Acme Fruits and I'm selling just three fruits to keep things simple. They are ripe tomatoes, green bananas, and onions. My site will have a home page and three sub pages for each of my three fruits. So can somebody please suggest firstly suitable names for the following:

1. In page properties a suitable name for my home page? Also, does this name come into play with the search engines? Would "Acme Fruits" be very suitable? This is not the URL name, just the page name.

2. For the sub pages, would "Ripe Tomatoes" be suitable for that fruit?
Going by the way my own site sub pages are named it would read,"Acme Fruits Ripe Tomatoes". Is that a bad choice? Again do search engines consider that page name? If so, I think "Ripe Tomatoes" would be far more suitable.

3. On the actual sub page, what is a suitable heading up the top of the page. Is "Acme Fruits" at the top of the page as the main heading a bad choice and "Ripe Tomatoes" a far better title?

4. With the Metatags on the home page, what is the correct way to list
the three items being sold from this Acme Fruits site? Are capitals in the words ok? Here is three ways of listing the items:
Ripe Tomatoes, Green Bananas, Onions (Lots of gaps - a problem?)
Ripe_Tomatoes, Green_Bananas, Onions (Some gaps)
Ripe_Tomatoes,Green_Bananas,Onions (No gaps - best, or doesn't it matter) Currently on my site I'm using the top method.

Sorry about all the questions on this subject but I have to get this sorted out so I can fix up my own site. Then I might have to try and set up this H1, H2 and so on. That will be fun!

[Vasili]

After reading many posts on Metatags, I'm still not sure on exactly how they should be listed. Now let's say my business name is Acme Fruits and I'm selling just three fruits to keep things simple. They are ripe tomatoes, green bananas, and onions. My site will have a home page and three sub pages for each of my three fruits. So can somebody please suggest firstly suitable names for the following:
1. In page properties a suitable name for my home page? Also, does this name come into play with the search engines? Would "Acme Fruits" be very suitable? This is not the URL name, just the page name.
2. For the sub pages, would "Ripe Tomatoes" be suitable for that fruit?
Going by the way my own site sub pages are named it would read,"Acme Fruits Ripe Tomatoes". Is that a bad choice? Again do search engines consider that page name? If so, I think "Ripe Tomatoes" would be far more suitable.
3. On the actual sub page, what is a suitable heading up the top of the page. Is "Acme Fruits" at the top of the page as the main heading a bad choice and "Ripe Tomatoes" a far better title?
4. With the Metatags on the home page, what is the correct way to list
the three items being sold from this Acme Fruits site? Are capitals in the words ok? Here is three ways of listing the items:
Ripe Tomatoes, Green Bananas, Onions (Lots of gaps - a problem?)
Ripe_Tomatoes, Green_Bananas, Onions (Some gaps)
Ripe_Tomatoes,Green_Bananas,Onions (No gaps - best, or doesn't it matter) Currently on my site I'm using the top method.

Sorry about all the questions on this subject but I have to get this sorted out so I can fix up my own site. Then I might have to try and set up this H1, H2 and so on. That will be fun!

Good to see you are thinking at the beginning, and have understood the relationships between construct and content that mean so very much to the success of your website!

1. You must save and publish the first page of your website as index (all lower case letters), but in Page Properties you can add a title which will be visible in Visitor browsers with SE values: something like "Fresh Ripe Tomatoes, Green Bananas, and Onions from AcmeFruit.com" would be right.
2. You can save and publish your second page as ripe-tomatoes, and since the SE's do attribute value to page names and titles, you can in Page Properties add a title similar to "Fresh, Delicious, Ripe Tomatoes From AcmeFruit.com" as long as the words used are indeed anchored in your page text (meaning that the words you use for page titles are actually used somehow in yuor page Content composition). Also be sure in Page Properties you enter Keywords (no more than 20-25 words, or better yet, 10-12 two or three word phrases) that are anchored also ... do not use Keywords unless they are anchored, lest they count against you being "orphaned" entries.
3. I assume you are referring to H-Tags here .... If in your page Header (the top area of every page) you use a slogan, and use regular text rather than an image or the Logomaker (which turns text into an image), you can establish both continuity and valued relevance by using that slogan as your constant H1 tag. See this Demo as example By using the slogan "Authentic Native American Fine Arts & Collectibles" as the H1 tag on each page, there is relevant continuity, and less pressure on each page to come up with additional H-Tags*, which on this page the first H2 tag would be "Truly unique works of art crafted in clay and mixed media." Maybe you could consider using a versatile slogan thusly as well, possibly something like "The Best Farm Fresh Ripe Tomatoes, Green Bananas, and Onions"? Next, if you look closely in the example, there is a slight difference in the size of the font used in the page content, and this is the slight indication for both visual emphasis as well as the presence of additional H2 tags (you can have as many H2 tags as needed, but singles only of others, and must "close" the page using an H6 tag). Can you now see how to weave in implementation of the H-META development with the composition of Content, both visually and practically?
4. When entering Keywords via Page Properties to each page, you should always use lower case letters, with a comma in-between. Remember, using 2-3 word phrases is better, as this affirms greater relevancy to your page (being anchored) as well as may prove more unique to search querries, as there is most likely too much competition from other websites using similar single words .... by using phrases that are anchored, you stand better to score by merit of unique content and stronger relevancy.


* Additional Reference to H-META and Content (review thread for more good info)

[Saturn77]

Hello again Vasili. Good to hear from you again. Thanks for your answer. I don't think I got quite what I was looking for in a couple of your answers.

With number 3. At this stage I'm not into setting up H-Tags, and frankly I don't really understand what they are all about. On my ripe tomatoes equivalent page on my actual site, I have the name of my business in big bold letters (I use wide latin 36) and further down the page I have a fairly large second title of "Ripe Tomatoes" (using the example). Have I got that wrong. Should I dump the really big business name at the top of the page?

With number 4. I mainly wanted an answer to the point about using spaces between the words for the Metatags names. I take your point that I should use only lower case letters and phrases are better. With those phrases, can I leave spaces between words? Perhaps you would like to set out an example of a typical Metatag listing for the Acme Fruits home page. I mainly want to see how you space the words and how you separate the phrases. Also I take your point that the words chosen in the Metatag phrases must also appear on the actual page and that will anchor them.

One other question. Using the ripe tomatoes sub page example. In my actual site I use the phrase "ripe tomatoes" on some sub pages up to 14 or so times. This is because I have fairly long descriptions of the items. Will that be considered excessive and the search engines brand my pages as spam? Also, how important is setting up my H-Tags on my pages? Will my site be seen by the search engines without them?

[Vasili]

Using H-Tags is considered an essential element of proper Content Development, having always been included in all META creation from the earliest of days, seen especially when "Headers" of websites were basically simple large textual "Headlines" to a real "Page" of information as would be seen on a simple Word document, for example. That is why H-META is still called "H" ... for Header, and later Headline.

When the evolution to use images and logos emerged, the H-Tag scoring did not evaporate, but was merely subjugated to textual aspects only, moving out of the Header area and into the Textual area, where the "Content" was relagated, 'framed' (if you will) by other visually appealing and "fancy" aspects of web page design, which had created by default the effect of increased focus on the remaining relevance between the construct of the page and the core values of textual information rather than the previous format of loosely threaded relevance due to simplicity of 'text-based' construct. During the transitional period, some web designers thought it clever to fudge the Rules a bit by placing normal text under the Header image or Logo in order to still have in place an H1 tag, believing that one simple entry that on one hand complied with H-META placement and formatting would outweigh the "hidden text" negative scoring ..... well, it didn't, and the 'SE-flagging' negative results created the errant momentum where the practice fell out of favor completely of keeping H1 info in the Header at all and re-focused on "adding" it to the textual part of the page if only to keep everything together, so mis-understood were the principles.

* You might recall that in some of my recent Demos I've created for other Forum Members, I used a craftily composed slogan in the Header area and pointed out that I designated it to be a persistent H1 tag, in order to not only provide relevant continuity and to not put "pressure" on dwindling Content, but to also score a few points higher with the SE's who have never forgotten where H-META started and where they start looking for it on web pages when the begin attributing values .... I was not 'cutting corners' but, in truth, assuring my SEO was scoring better than the crowd and still provide a very publically instructional way to illustrate the principle in practice, yes?

So, yes it IS important to use H-META Tags, even if it seems like a nuisance and a complete bother, especially in these days when people think themselves clever by using more images rather than the composed words and normal language arts to define a website presence and purpose.

As I mentioned above (in response to your latest questions), when creating simple META information as your Keyword entries, use all lower case letters with commas, and make sure it is normally spelled words in normal appearance (the global SE's "read" and value text only composed in American English -- the official language of the Net and computers overall -- without being case sensitive but very aware of spelling and context, leaving local hubs to rank and filter other languages, including British English): the key to Keywords is to highlight normally occuring language in the most favorable terms and manner so to best "show up" as better frequency of generic client Search querries....which is the compelling logic in advancing to the use of 2-3 word Key Phrases, which will always score doubly with the SE's as it demonstrates greater uniqueness of Content (assuming it is properly anchored and composed normally) and also in contrast to web competition, who are all using the same single Key words but not necessarily the same phrases, either outright, in combination, or in te same overall volume that you may --- again, all predicated by the manner in which they are anchored and part of a cognizantly composed Content.

So, with this all now being 'revealed' as the foundational logic that you may finally understand more of to use with a deeper insight, an example of Keywords you may consider might look like (in the same format, mind you): "acme fruit, fresh ripe tomatoes, green bananas, tasty onions, buy online, farm fresh, trusted quality, delivered to your home" or the like. Note the number, and order ... that is as strategic as choosing them as well.

When it comes to page titles, keep in mind that although you are allowed 100 total characters and spaces for a page title (which will display in the browser), only the first 65 actually show on average, and thus, keeping your limitation to 40 or less is more advantageous altogether. Especially if your page titles are to echo your specific page-oriented Keywords and anchored Content.

Your question about whether or not 14 mentions is too many in a Page and if it may be considered Spamming? I would ask you to take a second look at your Content composition to see if it truly IS composed generically, with a pronounced "natural" flow, and whether or not YOU presume it to be an acceptable percentage of the 350-450 core-cached words of your content. I would venture to think it may be too high a ratio, whereas the single word tomato would not be as risky ..... this brings up another aspect of SEO altogether, and that is rotation, or natural "wraparound": the concept is that if your true single Keyword on the page is "tomato" then the few phrases you create around the word in a 3-word Key Phrase will not only fit better in compositional context, but more likely will have a greater chance of being part of the keyed in querry by the Search Client: it is like hedging your bet, padding either side of your Key Word with another more likely to come up. The more possible combinations you generically have, they more times you can frequently rotate them, changing up the order as KW entries and re-publishing them to get the best performing mix over time (rely on the AWStats data in your Control Panel to indicate which pages need help).

So there you have more of it ..... some real SEO meat to ponder. Trust me, there is a lot more to know about SEO, but getting a handle on the basics is critical. I hope you did not choke on it, and that it will provide you with the energy to make a real difference in pre-optimizing your website!

[Saturn77]

Many thanks for your excellent answer Vasili. You have obviously put a lot of time into typing that reply.

Yes, I'm very clear on the Metadata now. I note that it is ok to put spaces between the words in the small phrases and to leave spaces between items in the list. The way I had mine was correct except I had some capitals which I will change to lower case.

So now I will fix up all my pages, publish them, then see how I go. I'll try setting up the H-Tags a little further down the track.

Actually I'm going to try a very small herbal business. Now that repeating a name many times probably won't be a problem because taking just one of my herbs called Gotu Kola for example. That name may be repeated 14 times in the text, but the words in the Metadata will read "gotu kola capsules", and that phrase will only appear about three times in the text. However in two out of those three places it will be in large capital letters as headings.

Once again, thank you for putting a lot of time into my thread.

[Henschel]

I have several questions on page descriptions & key words. Should page descriptions use all lower case letters and no upper case letters? In key words how should a 3 letter phrase " mystic animal cults" be written: mystic, animal, cults, or mystic animal cults,
Thanks

[GulfCoaster]

I have several questions on page descriptions & key words. Should page descriptions use all lower case letters and no upper case letters? In key words how should a 3 letter phrase " mystic animal cults" be written: mystic, animal, cults, or mystic animal cults,
Thanks

....which is the compelling logic in advancing to the use of 2-3 word Key Phrases, which will always score doubly with the SE's as it demonstrates greater uniqueness of Content (assuming it is properly anchored and composed normally) and also in contrast to web competition, who are all using the same single Key words but not necessarily the same phrases, either outright, in combination, or in te same overall volume that you may --- again, all predicated by the manner in which they are anchored and part of a cognizantly composed Content.

So, with this all now being 'revealed' as the foundational logic that you may finally understand more of to use with a deeper insight, an example of Keywords you may consider might look like (in the same format, mind you): "acme fruit, fresh ripe tomatoes, green bananas, tasty onions, buy online, farm fresh, trusted quality, delivered to your home" or the like. Note the number, and order ... that is as strategic as choosing them as well.

..... this brings up another aspect of SEO altogether, and that is rotation, or natural "wraparound": the concept is that if your true single Keyword on the page is "tomato" then the few phrases you create around the word in a 3-word Key Phrase will not only fit better in compositional context, but more likely will have a greater chance of being part of the keyed in querry by the Search Client: it is like hedging your bet, padding either side of your Key Word with another more likely to come up. The more possible combinations you generically have, they more times you can frequently rotate them, changing up the order as KW entries and re-publishing them to get the best performing mix over time (rely on the AWStats data in your Control Panel to indicate which pages need help).

I have to quote him, because I wouldn't explain it as well .....

[Vasili]