Keyword Query

[Bethers]

Re: Keyword Query

Right, that's what I meant. I pay a couple times a year - and then spend hours playing in there :)

I like your phrasing "unbridled abuse" - very apropros.

[zuriatman]

Re: Keyword Query

AJ,

Try this link to google keyword tool and you will have an idea after you have tested your keyword using the tool.

https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal

[Bethers]

Re: Keyword Query

That tool, while useful, does not give the information necessary as to what words people are actually using to search - in a concise manner - to help design pages.

[AJ113]

Re: Keyword Query

Hmmm I need to look at it again then, Beth. I thought the one thing the Google tool did do was make suggestions based on genuine historical searches.

What it definitely doesn't do is give specific stats on the volume of the searches and the extent of the competition. It just uses little bar graphs with no legend, which tells you precisely 5 eighths of **** all.

[Bethers]

Re: Keyword Query

The last part of what you said - exactly lol - and some of those terms might be genuine searches by one person - of no use. But that graph doesn't say that. I use that for my sites - and 99% of what they recommend, I toss - as they would not be targetted phrases for what I have.

So, use everything offered, but be very careful - YOU know what your site is about - none of the services do. Say I ask Google about the word pinata - one of the top phrases is probably going to be history of pinatas - not going to bring me any buyers - and I do have a page on that - but would never use it for PPC - and wouldn't optimize anything but the one page for it (just on the chance that I'll get someone occasionally who finds me that way and does buy). Most of the phrases they recommend - would not be ones I'd even optimize a page for like that.

[AJ113]

Re: Keyword Query

OK, so Wordtracker and I have spent the last seven days getting to know each other, and over a short period of time we have developed an intimate relationship. Before I continue to giive my appraisal of Wordtracker as promised, I have a question for all you SEO gurus:

Much of my research consistently unearths someone who says that your website should be optimised with respect to the competition because it is those specific websites that you are competing with.

I'm not entirely sure what these people are on about. To my way of thinking, your competitors are the top ten sites returned by Google for any given search term. Doesn't matter whether those sites are in the top ten intentionally or by accident, the fact is that your site has to replace one of them in order to get high volume traffic.

Is my logic flawed here? Have I gone awry with my reasoning? Please enlighten me!

[AJ113]

Re: Keyword Query

Google/Yahoo/MSN they're all the same to me at this stage my development. If I can get any page of any site onto the first page of results for any of the three 'big' SE's I'll view that as progress - providing the keyword has some reasonable known volume for searches.

The reason I asked the question is this: Wordtracker's default settings for their competition search has the quote option set to 'yes'. Now I know that - in theory - this will produce more relevant results, but as far as I can see, relevance is irrelevant. Most people search without quotes, and when they do, the first page of results will determine which site they choose to visit. Of course, at that point they will choose the most likely-looking site for their needs, but they are not thinking about relevance at the time that they make the initial input into Google, because they do not use quotes.

I know that some of the results on the first page will be irrelevant to the searcher's intentions, but nevertheless, because most people search without quotes, that initial first page of results will show you your competion, whether those sites are optimised for the keyword by design or by accident.

Similarly, many SEO 'experts' advocate the use of the allintitle function on Google. How is that going to help you? It will you tell you how many pages and exactly which pages have your chosen search terms in their title. All well and good, but I don't understand what use that data would be.

[AJ113]

Allintitle - An Explanation

Allintitle

This is a special search term you can use with Google to help you seek out your competitors for a keyword. You use it like this, Allintitle:keyword(s)

This search displays all websites with the keyword(s) included in the title, and thus gives you an idea of how many sites - and exactly which sites - are deliberately competing for your keyword.

You can go one step further by putting your keyword in quotes like this Allintitle:"keyword phrase" which will return all sites with the exact keyword phrase in their title, thus narrowing down the results to your exact competition.

You can then visit each of these sites - especially the top ranking ones - and view their HTML code, thus enabling you to examine the optimisation methods they have used.

Many so-called experts advocate the use of the Allintitle function, but my own view is that the Allintitle function has limited - if any - use because the real competition is in the first ten results returned from a normal search.

Even if some of those sites in the first ten are not really relevant to the keyword, the fact that they are in the top ten means that they are stopping your site from being there.

So does anyone have any views on this? Did I miss something cool with the Allintitle function? Or is it as limited as I think it is?

[Garren]

Re: Keyword Query

I am going to answer your question as to why I beleive that page is so highly ranked and I am sure that 100 people will gladly tell me how wrong I am but here goes. Google and other search engines will keep in mind that people like to see comment in different format for example html, php, cfm, and so on they also know that different encoding is importent for different viewers utf-8, charset, etc. So within its top results it will try to include the best pages with these different variables. Seeing how this page is a saved mail archive well written in a simple to read format. It stands to reason why it is in the top ten. Google doesn't care who is trying to sell what but who has the most relevant information on there page about the terms that are searched. This page has those terms spaced throughout the page. This page uses no keyword tags. Google doesn't even read your keyword tags and it is recommended to use no more than 7 keywords per page. Another reason the page is so higly ranked is because it has been around for a while. I hope my opionion helps.

I am not a expert nor do I beleive anyone outside of google is for your question.

Good luck

[AJ113]

Re: Keyword Query

Garren, thank you for the input, which page are you talking about?

Sorry, I realise now you are referring to my original quetion in the OP.

Well, if your theories are correct they would certainly go a long way towards answering my question, thank you for your insight!

You don't think that inbound links play any part in the page's ranking?

[Garren]

Re: Keyword Query

The page in question has no inbound links except the ones you are creating for it in this forum. It's pagerank is based on the amount of time it has been around the internet. To answer your question to me though I do beleive inbound linking is important for page rank for two reasons.
1. I have seen it with my own eyes.
2. Google tells you it is important.

[AJ113]

Re: Keyword Query

Yes, exactly why I asked the question in the OP Garren. There are no inbound links and yet the site still makes it to no 2.

I think you have made some excellent points, they give a plausible explanation for the site's position. If your explanations are correct it gives us all something to think about i.e. inbound links perhaps aren't always as important as conventional wisdom would have you think.

Here's another one for you Garren (or anyone else for that matter). The search term diverticulitis diet returns the site www.diverticulitis.net at number 6 on Google.

My question is similar to the OP, with no inbound links to the site, why do think that happens in this case?

[Garren]

Re: Keyword Query

That page isn't at no6 its diverticulitisdiet. One reason that apge is there is its not a very competitive search term. Its name is the same as the search term all internal links have part of search term in there links. Small page size. Type of page and encoding. Proper use of h1 h2 tags. Proper placement of keywords. My opionion of course.

You will go crazy trying to figure out why and how google does what it does I wouldn't go down that path. It will just make you go mad and crazy trust me I've been there

[AJ113]

Re: Keyword Query

Yes, sorry Garren of course I meant www.diverticulitisdiet.net . Thank you for your reply, you are very knowledgable on this subject, and furthermore you confirmed what I thought were the answers to my questions.

I'm not really trying to work out why and how Google does what it does, ultimately I'm aware that Google's formulae and algorithms are essentially unknown by anyone other than Google themselves and so there is only so much work that you can do in this area.

Nevertheless I am keen to learn the basics, I am just trying to place myself in the ballpark at this point in terms of Google knowledge.

On what specifically are you basing your opinion that it is 'not a very competitive search term' ?

[AJ113]

Re: Keyword Query

Well, nearly a year down the line I just thought I'd come back and say I am well on my way. If you put lose inches into msn.com, guess who is at no 2, and if you put it into yahoo.com, guess who is at number 2 AND 5?

Just the big G to crack now, currently outside the top 100, but I'll get there!